Beskrivelse: En Hvidrygget flagspætte har kunnet ses i Garphyttan siden september 2017. Den fouragerer dagligt på insekter i løvtræerne på Lövängen. Her sammen med en Sortspætte.
Stor tak, Silas,
for at vise os en Hvidrygget ssp. 'lilfordi',
fordi... den jo udmærker sig ved at være knap så Hvidrygget -
snarere det amerikanerne kalder Ladder-backed = m/ [hvid]
stige på ryggen.
ID:
Med rødlig isse en Juv./Male ?
Yours ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, C.
har hvid
Selv tak, Carsten.
Jeg var heldig nok til at finde 6+ fugle ved Akseki. Jeg så en juvenil fugl, der havde blågrå flanker (dunrester). Den havde samtidig rød isse. Spørgsmålet er så, om alle lilfordi-ungfugle har rød isse, eller om de, som med Sortspætteungerne, allerede kan kønsadskilles på den røde isse i ungefugledragten.
Fuglen på billedet er dog en adult han, der holdt sammen med en adult hun og en juvenil. Alle tre sås i samme træ samtidig :-)
Lilfordi har jo væsentlige forskellige i forhold til ssp. leucotos - og det gælder både udseende, kald og foretrukken habitat. Så den tager sig i hvert fald ud som en anden art i forhold til ssp. leucotos. Men jeg har ikke kunne finde nogle grunde artikler, der belyser, om lilfordi rent faktisk bør ophøjes til art eller ikke. Så hvis I ved om noget, må I meget gerne sige til.
English:
The ssp. lilfordi of the White-backed Woodpecker differs from ssp. leucotos in both appearence, call and habitat. Does anyone know if any serious work has been done or publishes about these two subspecies and whether they warrent a spilt into two full species or not?
Best regards,
Silas
Dear Silas,
Lilford's Woodpecker was split as a separate monotypic species (from White-backed Woodpecker) in the Netherlands in 2012. In Dutch Birding magazine 34-01 several scientific articles are mentioned to justify this split (Matveyev1985, Perusek 1991, Grange & Vuilleumier 2009).
I have seen Lilford's Woodpecker in south-east Bulgaria , close to the Turkish border, but couldn't find any near Akseki in July 2012. Great photo, would love to see a bird so well!
Best regards, Eric.
Dear Eric
Thank you for this valuable information.
These birds are probably not uncommon a few kilometers north of Akseki as I encountered at least 6 birds. But I used several hours in the area before finally finding first two birds together and then three. They don't really make a lot of noise but forage from tree to tree (like a Treecreeper) - so they are not easy to locate at all. But once they are being found they are actually not really shy.
In Turkey there is much habitat similar to that of Akseki and I presume that they have a wider distribution in Turkey than what we currently know.
Best regards,
Silas
Dear Eric. I'm puzzled about your information stating that Lilford's Woodpecker is split in Holland. I cannot find any of the systematic authorities mentioning it as more than a possible future split. Maybe I didn't look hard enough?
B.r. Tau
Dear Tau,
You can find a list of all (potential) splits on the website of Dutch Birding:
http://www.dutchbirding.nl/page.php?page_id=229 (pdf)
This list is made by one of the members of the CSNA and updated annually. The CSNA is the committee on taxonomy and nomenclature of (especially) birds in the Western Palearctic. Members are Arnoud van den Berg, André van Loon, Kees Roselaar en George Sangster, some of which also contributed to BWP.
Hope this helps, Eric.
Thanks Eric.
But I'm still confused, which of course isn't your fault. But CSNA is but a national committee (Dutch).
The descision seems to relie solemnly on:
Grangé & Vuilleumier 2009. The White-backed Woodpecker Dendrocopos leucotos: two scenarios to explain the history of its distribution in southern Europe, and analysis of the taxonomic relationships between the subspecies lilfordi and leucotos. Nos Oiseaux 56(4).
I haven't read this, but it worries if splitting has become a national descition.
B.r. Tau
Dear Tau,
The fact that Lilford's Woodpecker is split in the Netherlands by the Dutch CSNA does of course not necessarily mean that taxonomic authorities in other countries have a similar opinion. It is however also a fact that the CSNA is the founder of many taxonomic decisions which were later taken over by other authorities. So every birder has to decide for himself which 'rules' to follow. I follow the Dutch approach for my lifelist and the Netfugl approach to compare my ranking with other WP-birders.
There are at least two other sources on which the decison by the CSNA is based on (see my first comment), although I don't know the content of these.
Best regards, Eric
Beskrivelse: Bestanden af Hvidryggede Flagspætter i bjergene i Shaanxi og Sichuan (ssp tangi) er vel nærmest at regne som en reliktbestand, da hovedudbredelsen ligger i skovbæltet et par tusinde km nordpå.
Ikke så mærkeligt at fuglene er noget mørkere, og i udseende nærmer sig de mørke racer/arter? på Japanske og Koreanske øer.
Beskrivelse: Bestanden af Hvidryggede Flagspætter i bjergene i Shaanxi og Sichuan (ssp tangi) er vel nærmest at regne som en reliktbestand, da hovedudbredelsen ligger i skovbæltet et par tusinde km nordpå.
Ikke så mærkeligt at fuglene er noget mørkere, og i udseende nærmer sig de mørke racer/arter? på Japanske og Koreanske øer.
I really think Netfugl should consider a policy regarding watermarks on photos uploaded to the site. It completely ruins the aesthetic experience of viewing a photo, and it makes absolutely no sence.
Best regards, Søren
Ps. except from that, a nice shot..
Certainly they should, but Netfugl has the right to decide if a photo is accepted or rejected. Despite this being an excellent photo of an interesting species I agree with Søren.
Hi Adam.
You don’t need to apologize. My comment was meant as a general attitude toward watermarks on photos at Netfugl.dk
I’ve posted photos at this site for some years, and I've only seen a few violations of copyright, which is why I find such a massive watermark unnecessary. But that's just my personal opinion.
Most of all I think it’s a pity that such a beautiful picture of White-backed Woodpecker, as this one, does not appear without any distracting elements!
Best regards.
Søren
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Hi Adam,
Fine photo of a species the swedes have brought to the brink of extinction by their aggresive and relentless forest-industry....sigh.....Then a discovered that 'your' bird is in deep **** as well....what a ghastly case of bird-pox on it foot....double sigh!
Peter
Hi Adam,
This bird is a 'fetish-species' here in Scandinavia.
The swedes have done their best -and almost succeeded- to eracidate the whole population.
They call it forest-management.
'Your' bird is in serious trouble as well.....the bird-pox on its foot is quite a turn off, although your photo is otherwise actually very pleasing to look at.
Regards
Peter
ps I wrote a second time because I don't think it is possible to edit my posts, and I made some typhos in the first one....
Hej Peter,
Thank you for your opinion. Unfortunately, our problems are similar to forest management. However, the species is strictly protected in Hungary, and settle down where there may be limited to the management (Of course, it's just the principle of a few places we can enforce).
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Beskrivelse: Var stået meget tidligt op en morgen for at tage ud i en skov og lede efter bl.a. spætter. Havde lige skænket den første kop kaffe, da et "kjøp" fra toppen af træet på campingpladsen tiltrak min opmærksomhed. Ved første øjekast på spættens ryg opfattede jeg én ting - striber! Jeg behøvede ikke længere kaffe for at vågne.
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