Titel: 1 of 3 images: Black-headed Yellow Wagtail ssp feldegg - type "melanogrisea"
Beskrivelse: This Yellow Wagtail ssp feldegg of the form/type 'melanogrisea' is hereby first-confirmation as breeding form in Kyrgyzstan. I noticed one breeding pair hence the food in the bill of the adults, and confirmed it by observing how the adults flew to/from nest in a little bush.
Unless disagreement occur about my identification as 'melanogrisea' the eastern form of ssp feldegg.
The white on side of throat should be diagnostic for 'melanogrisea' and in my mind the black hood is slightly smaller than western feldegg.
I noticed the call was less "shrilling" compared to neighbouring Citrine Wagtails; good to remember when discussing whether the call is valuable ID-feature when seperating migrating eastern forms of Yellow Wagtials and Citrine Wagtail in DK... Its not that difficult to identifie migrating Citrine Wagtails solely on the call...
This observation of 'melanogrisea' is interesting as the feldeggs breeding in Southern Kazakhstan only 100-150 km further direction North all (at least what I have seen) belongs to ssp feldegg. I have seen many feldegg in southern Kazakhstan, but so far no 'melanogrisea.'
The feldegg I have seen in breeding time in southern Kazakhstan in addition seems to prefer moist habitats with higher vegetation than this 'melanogrisea' which occured in "typical" grassy low-vegetation meadow among Citrine Wagtails. But this might be pure coincidence and vague speculation...
hi michael,
interesting pics from kasakhstan. in my view it's difficult if not impossible to assign feldegg types to geographic locations (melanogrisea as the eastern form...) since variation within western and central range of ssp. feldegg is huge and all kind of types occure wherever one looks. check this thread with many photos from romania (including all kinds of intergrades with flava): http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=138719 and note especially these photos of romanian birds: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=194222&d=1241074986 , http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=195875&d=1241947158 , http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/data/527/P4172682m.jpg
kindest regards,
lou bertalan
Hi Lou,
Thanks for your interest.
Yes I agree - there is uncertainity, but I have more pictures of feldegg from different parts of southern Kazakhstan (its more common there than here in Kyrgyzstan). In my Kazakhstan pictures I have no individuals showing 'melaogrisea' characters. In the Kyrgyz birds however I see the white on side of throat clearly - in kazakh birds I havent seen it!
I dont think its impossible to find 'melanogrisea' forms in Romania? Is the form of feldegg on your links rare/common in Romania?
Best greetings
Michael
feldegg is the common breeding ssp. in romania, while only about 20% are really "pure" looking feldegg, the rest being intergrades of various morphs ("dombrowski", "supercilliaris", xanthophrys" and everything in between).
your argument that the kyrgyz birds all look like "mealogrisea" while the ones in kasakhstan are typical feldegg however convinced me. 2cy males of pure feldegg however do have (or can have) a more or less wide white chin strap/moustache - so how to separate those from adult melanogrisea ? ;) ... yellow wags in northern balkans seem to be in a high evolutionary dynamic (feldegg invaded flava from south to north in the last 3-4 decades and caused the various intergrades). it would be interesting to see if the eastern feldegg are much more stabile? i'm thinking about hybridization with e.g. beema.
best whishes
lou
Thanks Lou,
Yes for sure yellow wagtails (in general) are highly evolutionary dynamic making the yellow-wagtail ssp very complex, with fancy pedigree groupings. I dont have Krister Mild and Per Alströms "Wagtails & Pipits" here, but I remember reading about this 'melanogrisea' (Turkestan Black-headed Wagtail)which is considered as a "form" and not ssp by the authors. One of the problems with 'melanogrisea' is exactly as your links shows - there is occurnece of 'melanogrisea'-birds in Balkan, and this should speak against a ssp 'melanogrisea' - but maybe... these melanogrisea-looking indiviuals are isolated/rare in Balkan?
However some have other oppinions and consider ømelanogrisea' as a ssp. I also remember the debate about whether 'melanogrisea' is considered being hybridization with northern (500-600 km north from here) distributed "beema."
I didnt knew that 2cy males of feldegg have (or can have) a more or less white chin strap, and I havent seen it on any feldegg in southern Kazakhstan.
Best greetings
Michael
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Titel: 2 of 3 images: Black-headed Yellow Wagtail ssp feldegg - type "melanogrisea"
Beskrivelse: This Yellow Wagtail ssp feldegg of the form/type 'melanogrisea' is hereby first-confirmation as breeding form in Kyrgyzstan. I noticed one breeding pair hence the food in the bill of the adults, and confirmed it by observing how the adults flew to/from nest in a little bush.
Unless disagreement occur about my identification as 'melanogrisea' the eastern form of ssp feldegg.
The white on side of throat should be diagnostic for 'melanogrisea' and in my mind the black hood is slightly smaller than western feldegg.
I noticed the call was less "shrilling" compared to neighbouring Citrine Wagtails; good to remember when discussing whether the call is valuable ID-feature when seperating migrating eastern forms of Yellow Wagtials and Citrine Wagtail in DK... Its not that difficult to identifie migrating Citrine Wagtails solely on the call...
This observation of 'melanogrisea' is interesting as the feldeggs breeding in Southern Kazakhstan only 100-150 km further direction North all (at least what I have seen) belongs to ssp feldegg. I have seen many feldegg in southern Kazakhstan, but so far no 'melanogrisea.'
The feldegg I have seen in breeding time in southern Kazakhstan in addition seems to prefer moist habitats with higher vegetation than this 'melanogrisea' which occured in "typical" grassy low-vegetation meadow among Citrine Wagtails. But this might be pure coincidence and vague speculation...
Titel: 3 of 3 images: Black-headed Yellow Wagtail ssp. feldegg - type "melanogrisea"
Beskrivelse: This Yellow Wagtail ssp feldegg of the form/type 'melanogrisea' is hereby first-confirmation as breeding form in Kyrgyzstan. I noticed one breeding pair hence the food in the bill of the adults, and confirmed it by observing how the adults flew to/from nest in a little bush.
Unless disagreement occur about my identification as 'melanogrisea' the eastern form of ssp feldegg.
The white on side of throat should be diagnostic for 'melanogrisea' and in my mind the black hood is slightly smaller than western feldegg.
I noticed the call was less "shrilling" compared to neighbouring Citrine Wagtails; good to remember when discussing whether the call is valuable ID-feature when seperating migrating eastern forms of Yellow Wagtials and Citrine Wagtail in DK... Its not that difficult to identifie migrating Citrine Wagtails solely on the call...
This observation of 'melanogrisea' is interesting as the feldeggs breeding in Southern Kazakhstan only 100-150 km further direction North all (at least what I have seen) belongs to ssp feldegg. I have seen many feldegg in southern Kazakhstan, but so far no 'melanogrisea.'
The feldegg I have seen in breeding time in southern Kazakhstan in addition seems to prefer moist habitats with higher vegetation than this 'melanogrisea' which occured in "typical" grassy low-vegetation meadow among Citrine Wagtails. But this might be pure coincidence and vague speculation...
Beskrivelse: Iflg litteraturen er det ikke noget ukendt fænomen at sortterner snupper andet end vandinsekter - som i dette tilfælde hvor en lille gruppe sortterner kom forbi og frådsede i haletudser.
De var overordentligt optagede af fourageringen, og kunne ikke holde sig væk fra den del af vandhullet hvor haletudserne gerne opholdt sig. Sortternerne yngler ikke i den lille mose, og er ikke før iagttaget ved vandhullet.
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